penetration most spudders can only dream of...

[Mr.Sandman]

ha but i really meant that because she is in the army she could get a tank and probably do the same thing i wasnt thinking on the lines of certain activities

[D_Hall]

@D_Hall yeah I get you point....
I was reffering more to the theory (or whatever you want to call it) that current systems are so advanced that in order to increase effectivness of anything by 10% you have to spend 60% more on its development....

Interestingly, most of the systems I see coming off the drawing board are actually CHEAPER than their predecessors (adjusted dollars, of course).

let's say that I know what you mean - unfortunatelly you can't win a war by moving in, beating an enemy with very advanced weaponry and moving out....

Depends on what your goals are. Seriously, defining victory is a very big deal. Unfortunately, this country seems to not pay attention to such things and as a result finds itself aimlessly waging war with no real direction.

If our goal was really nothing more than taking out Hussein, we could have left a couple years ago.

Similarly, Ghengis Khan COULD beat an enemy and move out and still win the war... because he killed everyone.

Oh, and the Israelis have a history of going in, kicking ass, and pulling out (or are you saying that they didn't kick Lebanon's ass in 1980ish?).

[THUNDERLORD]

...The cost of war - the hand makes a complete revolution every few seconds, adding another number to the digital counter, another ongoing casualty of war

I couldn't tell from the pic if it indicates casualties of humans or represents money spent on war?

I think it's strange that the most reform in governmental racial discrimination policies seem to have come about during the cold war.
Wonder if they weren't just looking for men to fill the ranks and money from various taxes to fund the weaponry that was needed to hold off the U.S.S.R. ? sounds ugly but I bet it played a role.

Also:

...Similarly, Ghengis Khan COULD beat an enemy and move out and still win the war... because he killed everyone.

That's the concept I was referring to with the Slayer song link earlier in thread.
This type fighting is what militaries are best at. Maybe all they're good for. IMO if they hang around a place long enough they tend to piss people off /stir up resentment anyway. 8)

[POLAND_SPUD]

POLAND_SPUD
yeah I get you point....
I was reffering more to the theory (or whatever you want to call it) that current systems are so advanced that in order to increase effectivness of anything by 10% you have to spend 60% more on its development....


D_Hall -> Interestingly, most of the systems I see coming off the drawing board are actually CHEAPER than their predecessors (adjusted dollars, of course).

No, I am not reffering to the fact that things get cheaper with time... I meant that increasing something's effectivness by 10% ussually increases all the costs by much more than 10%.. so for example: if you are deisigning a gun and you want to increase it's max range by 10% it's going to increase costs by more than just 10%

it's the same with spuddguning... well sort of... to get a 10% increase in muzzle velocity you have to increase pressure by more than just 10%... generally it's true of almost everything

I think it's strange that the most reform in governmental racial discrimination policies seem to have come about during the cold war.
Wonder if they weren't just looking for men to fill the ranks and money from various taxes to fund the weaponry that was needed to hold off the U.S.S.R. ? sounds ugly but I bet it played a role.

the proportion of colored people serving in military in most western countries is much higher than their % of total population... that's mainly because they are cheaper...
lol white people should protest that they are being discriminated

If our goal was really nothing more than taking out Hussein, we could have left a couple years ago.

lol no comment needed

[Ragnarok]

it's the same with spuddguning... well sort of... to get a 10% increase in muzzle velocity you have to increase pressure by more than just 10%...

That would be because increasing pressure by 10% will increase force by 10% (disregarding the flow and SOS restrictions)
10% higher force will create 10% higher muzzle energy, not 10% higher muzzle velocity - muzzle velocity will increase by ~4.9%.

Scienceman strikes again!

[POLAND_SPUD]

yeah I know that.. maybe it was not the most fortunate comparison and I've been hoping that no one would point that out (thx rag ) but it depends what you want to achieve and how you look at it...



let say that you have a PVC cannon running at 300 psi and you want to build a gun that will double it's muzzle velocity without switching to heavier ammo...

so first of all you have to find some way to pump it to 600 psi.. ussually it involves spending $$$
then you realize that 600 psi exceeds the pressure rating of PVC pipe and the valve on your gun so you have to use malleable iron fittings and steel pipes and design a piston valve capable of working at 600 psi.

of course you need a pressure hose capable of taking 600 psi and a pressure gauge as well as many other things...

so.. eventually upgrading your gun will cost more than just 150% the price you spend on a 300 psi gun

now does this help you to get idea of what I've been talking about or do I have to provide more boring examples and flawed comparisons that can be easily questioned ??

[D_Hall]

No, I am not reffering to the fact that things get cheaper with time... I meant that increasing something's effectivness by 10% ussually increases all the costs by much more than 10%..

Nor am I talking about things getting cheaper with time.

What I'm telling you is that the systems that I'm seeing coming off the drawing board right now are BOTH more effective AND cheaper than the previous generation of weapons.

The "more effective" part is due to improved accuracy.

The "cheaper" part is due to both cheaper electronics and smaller sizes (higher accuracy means you can do the same amount of damage with a much smaller bang).

[THUNDERLORD]

...the proportion of colored people serving in military in most western countries is much higher than their % of total population...

I was referring to the filling of the ranks.
But more than that the huge increase in immigration. When you think in terms of tax dollars it's astounding how much the Gov't probably makes from it. As well as owners of companies who hire and pay less.
There's property tax for example, if a land lot is empty it's taxed in dollars where as if an apartment buiding is located there, it's multi-million dollar taxable.
There are so many taxes when you think about it. Also to become a citizen most foreign born people have to document how much money they make to show they can live here. To do that they must pay tax on their income.
Lot's of nukes and stuff can be bought with those tax dollars to scare off the commies.
Dang, sounding like another rant sort of, but next time you see a foreign born person don't get angry (I don't), they may have saved this country from Russia! Besides pay for politicians and business owners.
Wonder how other countries can compete without doing the same?

Nor am I talking about things getting cheaper with time..

Seems like at some point supply and demand would come to play also(?) 8)